The Audible Original and Volume 29 of the Words + Music series, Tenacious D: The Road to Redunktion tells the story of the rock duo that labeled themselves the best rock band on earth (because if you aren’t going to champion yourselves, then who will?) in a delightful two-hour journey that features 30 years of never-before-heard archival audio and seven newly recorded catalog songs mixed with funny and heartfelt anecdotes. Jack Black and Kyle Gass may have started out as two theater students making their way in Los Angeles, but they’ve since released albums, toured the world, and made TV shows and films, alongside each other and always strengthening their friendship.

During this interview with Collider, Black and Gass talked about how fun it was to take this walk down memory lane, enjoying the process of recording this audio project, the important role their editor played in telling a cohesive story, the key to the success of Tenacious D, how they found themselves in a recording studio with Dave Grohl, and whether they’ve ever considered directing anything, outside of Post-Apocalypto.

Collider: I so enjoyed listening to this. I love when, even though I feel like I know the subject, I can still learn something, and I absolutely did. Was part of the appeal of doing this the fact that you now also have a bit of a record for yourselves, for your families and for your loved ones, all in one place? Now, if anyone ever asks you about Tenacious D, you can just point them to this.

KYLE GASS: That did cross my mind, putting it all in one place. I had some friends listen to it, and they were like, “I thought I knew everything about you guys, but I didn’t know some stuff.”

JACK BLACK: No one ever knows everything about anyone. There’s too much to cover. There’s too much ground.

GASS: We’re like onions.

BLACK There are too many nooks and crannies. I wasn’t thinking about, “Oh, I need to do a document for my children, so that they can listen to it,” because that’s something that they should have that nobody else has. This is for the world to get it down. But there was a feeling of, “We should tell the secret story of how the sausage is made because it’s interesting. If to no one else, then just to us.” It’s fun to take that walk down memory lane.

GASS: We’ve been around a few seasons.

BLACK: We were really just thinking, “What would be the easiest way to do this audiobook?” And it was like, “We’ll just tell the story of each album that we’ve made, and each album will be its own chapter.” But then, as we started doing it, it stopped being about what was easiest, and it started to become about the love, the fun of going through those times, and remembering all those things. It was really a fun process, and we started get excited about it. And then, we were like, “Wait a second, we might win a Pulitzer. This is really good stuff.”

When you do something like this, do you also have to think about making it something that longtime die-hard fans can enjoy and maybe learn something from, but also keep in mind that people who might be introduced to Tenacious D are going to be listening to this and this will be their first time hearing you guys? Do you have to think about both sides of that, or do you just hope that everyone will bask in the wonderfulness of Tenacious D?

GASS: I’m the most positive that we didn’t think about that.

BLACK: No, not at all. What we did was just open our mouths and let it spill. We were like, “Let’s start from the beginning,” the beginning not being the beginning of our first memories, but our first memories of me and Kyle together, of each other?” We started there, and went all the way through the first album. We left it up to John Spiker, our incredible producer and engineer and bass player, by the way, to go through and edit, because we talked for hours and he squashed it down.

GASS: He made it a story with a narrative.

BLACK: It’s so important. The editor trims away all the fat, which is a crucial job. If you listened to it unedited, it would be so long. There would be so many sections where you would just tune out and change the channel.

GASS: The first cut of Pick of Destiny was three and a half hours. The assembly cut was three and a half hours.

BLACK: I remember the first movie I ever did. I saw a rough cut, and I was like, “Oh, my god, I’m a bad actor. I’m horrible.” And then, the editor just did some magic, and by the end, when it was released in theaters, I was like, “Oh, my god, I’m fantastic. I’m fantastic at acting.” That’s all the editor. People don’t celebrate the editor. Anyways, the answer to your query is no. We just let it spill. We said whatever came to our mind. And then, our genius, John Spiker, trimmed down everything and made it, like you say, something that the hardcore fans and someone who’s never heard of Tenacious D could enjoy.

On paper, Tenacious D shouldn’t work. It sounds insane when you try to explain it to someone who doesn’t know. And yet, you guys are awesome and it’s all so much fun. What do you think has been the key to the success of Tenacious D?

GASS: Now wait a minute, what’s on paper here that makes it seem like it couldn’t work?

It gives the impression that it’s more of a joke and not something serious, but you guys are serious about the music you do. For me, it’s the sincerity of it all that makes it so enjoyable, but you don’t know that until you listen to the music or see you guys perform.

GASS: I think it’s the sheer massive talent that you don’t expect from the wrapping, and it’s the amazing chemistry. I think we complement each other pretty well.

BLACK: I don’t think it’s any of that. I think it’s that we actually do secretly think we are the best band in the world. That is the secret. That it’s not a joke to us.

GASS: It just comes out a certain way. I always thought we were trying to write the greatest and the best songs that we can.

BLACK: When you get out there in front of a crowd, and you’re playing your song, and you’re in the zone, and everything sounds fucking great, and the energy is rocking, and the whole band is on the same page, you get this weird feeling like, “Oh, my God, I think this might be the best thing this audience has ever witnessed.” I think that’s the way all bands are, when they hit that sweet spot. The funny thing is that there’s no such thing. It’s a joke, being the best band in the world, because it’s a matter of opinion. Any band can be the best band in the world, if they believe it in the moment and if they’re in the zone. You tap into that power of the universe and everything’s a weird magic miracle, if you do hit that groove. It’s essential that you actually believe that you have the power. Even if it’s a stupid joke, you have to believe.

I love that you guys talk about meeting Dave Grohl, he tells you that he’s a fan, and then you’re playing with him. When you have Dave Grohl drumming with you, you’re a serious band, whether you want to be or not. As far as I’m concerned, he really is truly one of the greatest drummers of all time, so what was it like, as a band and as musicians, to be playing alongside someone like him?

GASS: I was fully aware, at the time, because we were getting started, and it was pretty early for us, while Dave was pretty fully formed. But Dave Grohl was playing on our little songs in the studio. It was a mindblower, for sure. I don’t think I’ve ever gotten over it, really.

BLACK: That was heaven. We wouldn’t have asked him to do it. It was the Dust Brothers, who were our producers on the first album. That was also a coup, by the way, that we got the Dust Brothers. They did Paul’s Boutique with the Beastie Boys, and they did Odelay with Beck. It was like, “How do we get them?” But they were just into it. They were big on this thing about forming a supergroup to back us up on the album and not just do acoustic versions, like we’d always done. We were like, “Oh, fuck.” They were like, “Do you know anybody? Any musicians of note?” And we were like, “Well, Dave Grohl came to see us at the Viper Room.” And they were like, “What?! Okay, so that’s, for sure, where we’re gonna start.” And I was like, “He’s not gonna do it. He’s from Nirvana.” And they were like, “You ask. That’s how you do this. You just ask.” So, we asked, and we tricked him. We said, “Dave, thanks for coming to see us at the Viper Room. We’re doing a record and this is so dumb, but could you come down and record one song, or maybe two songs?” And he was like, “Yeah.” He came down, and we locked the door and forced him to do the whole album. We did it in one day because we knew, once he walked out that door, we were not gonna get him to come back for a second day. He laid down the drums for the whole album in one day. How many fucking songs do we have on that first album?

GASS: Oh, my god, it was 14 tracks.

BLACK: Yeah, and it came out so fucking good. And then, whenever we did an album after that, he would call and say, “Do you wanna do another one?”

GASS: And he’d come in for one whole day again.

BLACK: It was always one day. He’s a miracle man.

GASS: I’m pretty sure we’d send some tapes before, but I don’t think he listened. He’d just pick it up, right in the room, and be like, “Okay, yeah, I’ve got it. Here we go. Let’s do it.”

I got to see him once with Nirvana, and I will never forget the experience. It was just incredible to watch him play the drums.

GAS: Yeah.

BLACK: Which show? What year was it that you saw them?

It was the December before Kurt Cobain died, at The Forum in Los Angeles, on their last tour.

GASS: Oh, ‘93. That’s really cool.

BLACK: Theirs was the best concert I ever saw. I saw them in ‘91. I don’t want to pull rank, but I saw them before you. They were playing in San Francisco at The Warfield, and I just remember feeling like it was a good name for the band because I was in Nirvana. I was literally in heaven. I was floating, just watching this fucking band where every song was making me feel so good. And I was looking around at the people in the audience, and everyone was on the same page. Everyone was smiling from ear to ear, and having a musical orgasm, or eargasm. It was this undulating mass of people in the front, with Kurt just leading away and Dave being the best drummer in the world. It’s weird because, if you talk to other drummers, they’re like, “Oh, no, he’s not all that.” And if you talk to Dave, he’s like, “No, no, no, I’m not that good.” He’s very humble about it. But the proof is in the pudding. I’ve never been so excited by a drummer than seeing him play live. So, maybe it’s not a technical thing, but it is just a feel thing.

You guys did Post-Apocalypto episodes, but have either or both of you thought about directing anything? Jack, have you ever thought about directing a narrative feature? Have either of you ever considered that side of things?

GASS: I have often said that I think Jack would be a great director because he directs naturally. He likes to have control of the project and he has great ideas, but it does demand a certain level of organized thinking that’s just a heavy lift.

BLACK: And you’ve gotta have patience and the ability to focus for long periods of time. I have a little ADHD. I feel good directing, but it’s not even really directing, with those little nuggets on social media. They’re little short films and videos and comedy bits. We directed Post-Apocalypto, which is this little cartoon that we made for our last album, together and that was so fun. If that had gotten a billion views, then I’d be directing, and we’d be directing a lot more often. It’s the world’s fault that I’m not a director.

GASS: Time is the only test. We’ll see in 10 years.

BLACK: At the end of the day, I like putting on a show. I don’t know that I’d like to be a director. It would be cool to be a director, just because of the respect that you get. It would be cool to be Paul Thomas Anderson or Taika Waititi, where people look up to you and respect you. But I don’t know if I really want the job.

I totally get that.

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